Civil Engineers & AIA Contracts

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    Jungmin Kim

    According to AHPP p.605, usually, Architect's consultants are both Civil engineer and Landscape architect with C401.

    But, if owner want to provide their consultant, he or she can. 

    Also, Civil and landscape consulting are additional service. 

    Am I right?

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    Pierre Antounian

    Thank you for explaining. I appreciate it. With regards to additional service, I am not sure. I will look into that. Where did you read that CE’s and LA’s are additional services?

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    Pierre Antounian

    If you are referring to the fact that not every project will have such services that is correct and the Client/Owner may request such services to be included in the project through a C401 agreement between Arch and a CE and/or LA.

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    Jungmin Kim

    According to AHPP p.605 side, Civil and landscape consulting are in a list of commonly additional service.

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    Pierre Antounian

    B101 - Civil, Landscape, Geotech are considered additional services yes. I was listening to the Shiff Harden lecture where he covered this.
    They are not part of basic services.
    So it seems as it’s case to case, can be the Owner, or the Architect. If Architect, it’s an additional service at which point the C-401 is used.
    The reason I created this post is as follows.
    I was looking through the pluralsight intro videos using the free 10 day trial. In one of the intro videos he is showing sample questions in his explanation of the test (general description/explanation). One of the sample questions was a bubble diagram showing various players in the construction process with arrows pointing to various other players. Arch to sub consultants. Contractor to subs. Owner and Arch both to Civil and Landscape. It was a hot spot type question and it was asking to point in the general location where a contractual obligation does not exist. The cursor was placed between the Arch and Civil. I’m going from memory here.
    According to AHPP there is a relationship between the two, contingent upon it being used as an additional service. We can argue this aligns with the B-101. So why would the cursor be placed between arch and civil on this sample question if in fact there can be a contractual relationship between the two. Without having a screenshot of this example to share here, I can only assume the sample question on pluralsight that was shown on one of the intro videos is either bogus or improperly worded.

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    Kevin Griendling

    The question states "in traditional design-bid-build" the key word being "traditional". Maybe it would have been slightly more clear if I had said "barring any additional services" or "standard architectural services only", but I think the term "traditional design-bid-build" still stands as clear enough.

    For the sake of the community, the question looks like this:

    The answer moves the cursor over the relationship between the architect and civil and landscape:

    Because in the course, and per the contracts, design-bid-build is commonly set up like this:

    For further discussion, should you encounter a question like this on exam day, the ONLY relationship shown in this example that is typically not present, is the relationship between the architect and civil/landscape. Therefore, even if you disagree with the wording of the question, it is your best answer so click that one.

    Hope this helps clarify for all.

    Best of luck,

     

    Kevin Griendling, AIA

    www.pluralsight.com

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    Pierre Antounian

    Hi Kevin,
    Thank you for the very clear explanation. It was very helpful and I am grateful for your answer and the time you put into it!
    I want to ask yet one more question.
    Does the use of Additional Services where an Arch takes on the responsibility of retaining a Civil and Landscape therefore make it non- traditional or atypical, but it is still in fact a Design Bid Build correct?
    The wording did throw me off a bit because I do not consider additional services non- traditional.
    Either-way thank you. It was a much needed explanation!

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    Kevin Griendling

    Hi Pierre,

    It is atypical, but there are two questions of "traditional" here I suppose one could argue. Is it a traditional delivery method? And, is it a traditional contract configuration?

    • Is it a traditional delivery method? Yes, DBB is commonly referred to as the "traditional" delivery method for architectural services.
    • Is it the "traditional" DBB contract configuration? No, it is an atypical configuration of DBB to include civil and landscape under their contract.

    Nothing you do to who is contracted under whom will change a design-bid-build delivery method. In theory, the client could contract all of the consultants themselves, and it will still be design-bid-build, as long as the project schedule is setup to provide design, then bidding, then construction in chronological order.

    Best of luck!

     

    Kevin Griendling, AIA

    www.pluralsight.com

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    Pierre Antounian

    Kevin,
    Super helpful and thank you again!
    Best Regards,
    Pierre

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