Sample Item 3: Change Order vs Change Directive

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    Aaron Perelstein

    Hey Benjamin,

    I think the key portion here related to time is that the walls are already framed. In order to reduce the demolition of additional work, a CCD is issued to prevent items like MEP systems, gypsum board or other materials from being installed. The owner being adamant confirms that the decision is not dependent on the price.

    Hope that helps.

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    Benjamin Norkin

    Thanks, Aaron.

    I agree with everything you said, but I still don't think this scenario necessitates a CCD. The A201 and commentary make it clear that a CCD is a step above a Change Order. There’s one section about Change Orders, there are ten about Change Directives. That’s because it’s a second resort, and has a tendency to introduce conflict into a project. The Change Order process protects Owner and Contractor. CCDs introduce uncertainty. This is my general issue with this question. It treats the two as equal choices, and they are not.

    So the two issues here:
    1) Agreement. We know the owner wants the change, but we can’t jump to a CCD without asking the contractor. We have to go with answer B.
    2) Time. You make great points here about potential demo, I am almost convinced! The problem here is that work won’t stop until you talk to the contractor anyway. You can either hand them a Change Order or a CCD, end result will be the same. Change Order is the better method of getting to the end result.

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    Aaron Perelstein

    Hey Ben,

    I think in this instance the CCD isn't going to introduce any conflict as the work will be done on a T&M basis. This indicates that the CCD isn't concerned about knowing the price up front. If the CO process was to be started the contractor would have to stop work at that wall while they gathered the supporting price and time impact information. That information would then be presented to the architect/owner for review and approval. During that process of the CO the delay and costs would increase for that work vs the CCD. I think you are right that CCDs that are issued over a disagreement in price become much more contentious - I don't see that here because of the cost reporting method.

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    Benjamin Norkin

    Ok, I think you got me. NCARB should hire you. I'm not even taking CE! You should come over to the PDD section.

    https://youtu.be/h_LdJ67-TCo?t=97 

    Thanks!

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    Aaron Perelstein

    Glad that helped and good luck. I was an early tester for all the exams and still come around to help out when I can.

    I think that one of the things about the questions in 5.0 that can be tricky - the details matter. I think it is often easy to narrow down to two answers, but the difference between the two may be more nuanced. 

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    Ryan NCARB

    Aaron...looking for a job?  Haha.

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    Kurt Fanderclai (Edited )

    Good discussion on Change Orders versus CCD's...

    One point about the nature and wording of exam questions -- where you said that  "Adamant" isn't a clue, it's extraneous information."  -- I think it's the opposite.  Those kinds of words are almost ALWAYS a clue in the exam questions.

    And, nice youtube, Benjamin...

     

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    Benjamin Norkin

    I agree that these exams, and most standardized test, are largely about reading comprehension. You have to understand what's being asked, and that's part of the really knowing the material. This involves locating the clues, but also the red herrings.

    Example: Handbook pg 107, the PDD question about the snow load on the roof...the rafter and dimension overhangs are extraneous information. Part of knowing how that load is accounted for consists of knowing what information isn't relevant.

    Example: Handbook pg 26, PcM question about legal entities...there's a whole mess of irrelevant information about where the clients are coming from. These aren't clues, but you have to know to rule them out.

    So I agree that "adamant" ended up being the clue, and Aaron mostly convinced me (51%) but I still think it's a flawed question. The desire of the owner isn't the initial primary distinction between CO vs CCD. We had to make a lot of assumptions about what was happening at that project. Routine visit, no code concerns? Doesn't sound like an emergency to me.

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    Diana Mendez-Estrada

    Great discussion, I was having a hard time understanding exactly how CO vs CCD are applied on particular scenarios.  Brightwood does an OK job of explaining them, but in a quiz I got the answer wrong when choosing between the two for the same discussion points above.  This cleared that up! 

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